Eugene Mirman Interview Transcript

Friday, March 24, 2006

KS: Let’s get this out of the way: Do you think there is substance to your reputation as an “indie-rock comic,” or do you see it as an association based on the fact that you’re on Sub Pop, and that you’ve toured with bands?
EM: I guess the question is what would that mean; like, what would it mean to be an indie-rock comic? So, I don’t know ... My answer is, I don’t really know what it means ... There’s music that is called alternative music. At one point it was because it was an alternative to mainstream music, but then at some point it just became a genre. So I feel like the way that now you can call something indie-rock that’s a shirt or an object or a thing that isn’t really music... I mean, I’m not an independent musician ... but I do tour venues that indie-rock bands tour, and I am on indie labels, and my career is similar to that of an indie band in certain ways. ... Did you want me to go, yes or no? Did I ruin it?

KS: Not at all.
EM: OK, good.

KS: Do you think of the comedy album as a repeatable listening experience?
EM: You know, I don’t know. Or, yes. What I mean is, I used to listen to comedy records over and over all the time, and I guess I used to do that, so I guess I think it is. But whether people do it now or not ... I remember loving having people come over and playing it for them, or bringing it with me, and staying up at night in a fort, listening to comedy. And AC/DC—don’t get me wrong.

KS: Do you think there’s a particular skill to making a comedy album that people will want to listen to more than once?
EM: No, I don’t know. For all I know, people listen to my album once, and then they claim sometimes to listen to it more. I think you just make a record, and some people either connect to it or not. There are movies, there are comedies obviously that people watch over and over and stuff. I do feel like... It’s weird, sometimes people do request jokes, which to me is kind of odd, because you know the joke. Jokes are sort of about surprise, but when you know the joke... but for whatever reason, people do enjoy hearing it sometimes more than once, or over and over.

KS: The track listing on the back of The Absurd Nightclub Comedy is divided into “side one” and “side two.” was that your idea?
EM: The designer and I... We were modeling it after old records, though I was aware there was no second side. That would be great if I secretly put—like, those dual-sided disks—if there actually was a whole other album I never told anybody about. It was just a design thing ... They aren’t, like, broken down into random topics related to schools and random things related to something else, like all war jokes on side two.

KS: Do you listen to vinyl?
EM: Yes, but I don’t call people and let them know, I’m listening to vinyl! Meaning, I have a lot of comedy records that are simply not available, or are much cheaper to purchase on vinyl. Like you can go into a store, maybe not in New York, but in most other places, and buy a comedy record for three or five bucks. And some of them aren’t on CD. A lot of them probably are by now, but who knows. Like I’m gonna listen to them more than once! I’m just kidding. Anyway.

KS: Are there particular comedy records that you still listen to frequently?
EM: No. I mean, now I see so much comedy that I don’t listen to it all the time, as much. Like I don’t listen to records as much... You know, when I was a kid, most of my nights were not spent at comedy shows, but now a lot of them are, so I feel like I see so much comedy. But it’s also a different thing, I think if you’re driving or whatever, or you’re taking a trip, and you play a record for somebody. I think that’s how you end up listening to something a lot, because you’re excited to show it to other people.

KS: When you tour with a routine, you have the opportunity to develop material as you go, but you also have to repeat punch lines over and over. How do you keep it fresh for you?
EM: I think that you do it for certain periods of time. There’s definitely jokes that I’ll do for a while, then stop, then maybe do again later. To a degree you either write new things ... Every week here in New York, I have a show where I do something new, so every week I either develop something new or refine something I’d just done, so after I do that for a while, and then tour with that stuff ... and eventually I put out a record, then sort of don’t do that stuff. Like, I don’t really do very much of what’s on my first album, and I’ll probably not really perform, when I tour, very much of what’s on my second. I’ll be doing other stuff. I mean, it sort of forces you to write more, I guess. So the way you keep it fresh in a sense is you do it for a period of time, put out a record of it, then write something new.

KS: How do you know when it’s time to let a joke go?
EM: It never necessarily is. There’s definitely some jokes, depending on the situation, that work really well, and I would just do... Like, I just did a tour with Cake, and some of the stuff I was doing was from my first album, which I normally wouldn’t do, but since the audiences were so large, and new mostly, that it made sense to do that stuff. I don’t have a rule or anything. It’s more, like, what I think people will enjoy. I am performing, so I want people to enjoy it, so I won’t, like ... unless I’m developing a new thing. Like some shows are purposely to try a new things, and then other shows you sort of have to deliver a certain thing, or a good show, maybe.

KS: How was making your second album different than making your first album? Did you have different or additional structural considerations?
EM: I did some in-studio stuff on my second album, which I didn’t really do on my first, which was a lot of fun. It’s the same thing, excluding maybe the Cars, who made two albums at once. A lot of what my first record was was jokes, I think there might have been jokes that I wrote many many years ago. Not that many of them, but some, and then my second album is all in a sense newer stuff or whatever I’ve done for the last year or year and a half.

KS: What’s the relationship between volume, like the volume of your voice, and punch lines?
EM: What do you mean?

KS: I notice on both of your albums, and just listening to other stuff, that comedians tend to, when they’re approaching a punch line, or at just various points, the volume of their voice goes up.
EM: I think eventually you develop... I mean, to a degree, what’s sort of funny becomes instinctual, in certain elements, in terms of delivery. I mean, I think what you’re talking about is delivery. So, probably the reason I do it is because you’re accentuating a word or a line or a thing. That’s probably it.

KS: Do you worry about people not getting your jokes?
EM: Yes, I do worry about that. ... There are jokes... I can’t remember any of... Yes, there are tons of things that people don’t get, and then you either redo them or stop doing them. The point is to convey a certain thing, so if I can’t do it, then I don’t do that joke. And then the weird thing is like, so say 25 percent absolutely love it... There are definitely some things where sometimes some people really love a joke, and I personally love the joke, and though most people don’t get it, I’ll still do it. I mean like one thing out of a bunch of stuff that works. If I have a joke that’s like 10 punch lines or whatever, and one of them doesn’t totally work, but I personally love it, I’ll still do it, because some people love it. But it’s important for people to get what you’re trying to do.

KS: You don’t use a lot of the standard transitions and introductory bits relied on by many standup comedians. Is this an aspect of your style developed over time, or is it something you have always thought about or tried to avoid?
EM: I’ve thought about it. I think when I perform live... You know, on the album it’s all sort of cut together, but I think in general, yeah. What I don’t like is the idea of a false transition. I sometimes have jokes in a row that have similar topics or something, and that makes sense to me. But the idea of like, falsely linking two ideas that aren’t really linked, it just seems fake, so I don’t really like to do that. However, some people have legitimate links, or are really telling a real... You know what I mean? A lot of my intros are like, I found some thing, and it’s this, or like this thing happened. And there’s other things in terms of performing you can do to tie it together—you don’t need to link, necessarily, the ideas—in terms of just, like, pausing, or commenting on something in the room, or taking a sip of water. They’re all transitions that are nonverbal. Wow, I really studied this.

KS: That brings me to, like on your press material and everything, it says that you created a major at college about comedy. I wondering how studying comedy affected your standup?
EM: Probably not really, it was just like... I mean, in the sense of like, I don’tmy set by saying, Ladies and gentlemen, I’m about to use this as a corrective tool on society. Here we go! Lots of people majored in like, history or English or whatever, like some broad thing, and then eventually temped, and then eventually either got a job as copywriters or journalists or ... they went into whatever. And I feel like, if I’m gonna go to college, why not learn about stuff that really interests me, that’s more specific. So, in terms of what I learned, I think the experience... Like, I did a one-hour stand-up act as my thesis, so in that sense, I learned a lot about promotion and writing and various stuff. But in terms of... I mean I took classes in writing and I did papers on the sociology of humor and social science—like Lenny Bruce’s affect on culture. I did a paper on the physiology of laughter for science. We had requirements, so I just chose to do comedy-related things. But like, the physiology of laughter, however much I do or don’t know about it, doesn’t really affect when I make fun of a band I saw. And I’ve seen some funny bands.

KS: Do bands that you perform with ever ask you for advice on banter?
EM: No. I don’t believe anyone has ever done that. Though that would have been my chance to say yes. But no, it’s not true. No.

KS: How does being Russian matter to your standup?
EM: You know, not totally. I think that to a degree it gives me a certain outsider perspective—growing up, or something. It’s possible that if somebody knew more than I did about styles of comedy, then maybe they’d go, like, You have a very... European sense... I don’t know if I do or don’t. So it’s possible that it does but I just don’t know it. But I’m sure that it does in a sense give me a different perspective, in terms of a how I view things.

KS: How does being a comedian affect the way you deal with the world on a daily basis?
EM: I think the way I see the world is what affects... you know what I mean? I don’t wake up and go, As a comedian, I think I’m gonna get Thai food today. I think that the way I filter the world is what makes me a comedian, or want to be a comedian, then become one.

KS: How do you feel about America right now?
EM: Oh, you know, it’s not bad. I think this is where elements of being Russian... It’s funny, I was talking to my mom—it was probably like a year or two years ago—on the phone (I mean, we’ve talked since, and do all the time), but at some point, I forgot what I said, but she was like, Shhh. Don’t say that, they could be recording you, and I was like, They‘re not recording us, this is America. And now we find out, OK, maybe they are recording us. So I feel like a lot of the things... I mean, I personally dislike communism. I think it’s a bad idea. A lot of people are like, Oh, it’s a good idea, but you can’t enact it, and I think it’s a bad idea that shouldn’t be enacted. But I feel like a lot of the things of the far right are very similar, like in terms of the sort of patriotism and nationalism, is very similar to communism, and the religious right—the overwhelming one-sided opinion. So, in that sense I think it’s scary. But is America... It probably is a much better place to be than most anywhere else in the world, which I feel like a lot of people don’t really understand—that actually it’s really pretty good here—when they complain about America. But also, our government is shitty.

KS: Sometimes I feel like I can’t, because I write about music and culture, I feel like I can’t listen to music or watch a movie without thinking about how I would write about it. Do you have trouble thinking about your life without relating it to comedy or trying to turn it into standup material?
EM: It’s not even that I have trouble, it’s that that’s how I see things, so sometimes if I think something is funny, I will turn it into standup. I don’t watch something and go, Please, god, don’t turn this into standup, this is just a movie. I’m fine if I do or if I don’t. I think in the same way that I don’t have transitions, it’s just that some things hit me as being funny, and I can either figure out how to convey it or not. If I can, I’ll make it into comedy, and if I can’t, then I’ll just think of it as funny, and never relate it to anyone.

KS: What’s the relationship between jokes and comedy?
EM: (laughs.) I don’t know, but I imagine jokes are comedy. Are you asking is there other comedy other than jokes?

KS: Not really, because the obvious answer would be yes.
EM: Right.

KS: I guess it’s just like, how important to comedy do you think jokes are?
EM: It depends what kind of comedy. I mean, it’s very important, in a sense, but I don’t know what the distinction you’re making... What do you mean as comedy that isn’t jokes?

KS: I suppose, if there’s no particular punch line...
EM: OK, I think I know what you mean. Here’s the question: would you then say... like a lot of people go, Andy Kaufman, he didn’t have punch lines, but I totally disagree, I think he did. Is that the kind of thing you mean, or no?

KS: I think that’s pretty close to it, yeah.
EM: OK, so for instance, Andy Kaufman would be an example... I think if people describe alternative comedy as something that doesn’t have punch lines... It’s not that it doesn’t have punch lines, it’s that they’re sort of hidden or different. For instance, when Andy Kaufman would do the thing where he would sing, or tell these bad jokes in a terrible accent, and then do all these things people would get so frustrated [at], and then eventually he would come out as Elvis, and do this incredible impression. That’s the punch line. The punch line is that he fooled you, you know what I mean? It’s not a traditional punch line, but most humor and most jokes in a sense have that. Not always, and there are obviously some people who just can make a funny voice or something, but in a sense that also is the punch line in that that’s not the voice someone would really talk in or whatever. So I feel like jokes... like, standup is the illusion of having a conversation. You are telling jokes, you’re just trying to make it seem natural, and a good standup does that, in a certain way. Obviously some people have jokes that are obviously jokes, but the structure of it, like lots of people who tell... Like, Steven Wright tells one-liners, and that’s not really a conversation, though it feels like it a little, but he clearly has a structure that you know it’s a joke, but you just don’t know what he’s going to say, because he’s very clever.

KS: Life is funny. How do you compete?
EM: I think I probably filter it and explain it. Explain how it’s funny. Especially if it seems like... I mean, a lot of what I might do is notice something that is just like, a thing that happens, that’s common, but is actually ridiculous, and then point it out maybe, I guess. I guess that’s probably what comics do. I don’t know. Was the question Life is funny, how do I compete? Right. Maybe then also, I’m not sure I’m in competition with life.

KS: Do you ever get tired of laughing?
EM: No, though I do like the idea that I sit at home, just laughing maniacally, and then at some point I think, This is exhausting. I really should watch a movie or something. In a sense you get tired of writing or working things out, and sometimes it’s frustrating if you have this idea that you think is really funny and you can’t convey it, and you can’t figure out how to make it work. But then eventually you can, and stuff, sort of, or you drop it.

KS: When did you start making shorts, in relation to when you started doing standup, or were thinking about doing standup?
EM: It’s sort of a hard answer in the sense that I probably did some video throughout high school. I mean, I definitely did, like I would make music videos to lots of heavy metal songs, and some Robin Hitchcock. But I made music videos too. And then I would make little shorts, sort of, and then probably in the beginning of college or after high school, I started doing standup, so in a sense I’ve been doing it... How long has it made sense, and they’ve been maybe funny? I don’t know, probably some time after college or around college or something. Like, I’ve done it all sort of together. And in the same way that like, when I was in college I had a radio show and I also wrote a column for our newspaper, so I’ve kind of done all these different parallel comedy things throughout... you know, for a long time.

KS: OK. I think that’s it, Eugene.
EM: No! That sounds fine.